Hawaii Attorney Schools Hawaii Department of Health
and Vexatious Litigant on Hawaii Law and Procedure
Sunahara v Fuddy(Hawaii-DOH) - Plaintiff's Memorandum in Opposition to Defendant's Motion to Dismiss -
In the Circuit Court of the First Circuit State of Hawaii - 2/28/2012
Hearing set for March 8th, 2012 at 9:30 A.M. before Judge Rhonda Nishimura
Excerpts from local Hawaii attorney Gerald Kurashima's memorandum:
PLAINTIFF’S MEMORANDUM IN OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANTS MOTION TO DISMISS COMPLAINT, FILED ON JANUARY 3, 2012
Defendant State contends that because it provided a “computer generated abstract of the birth certificate,” the Plaintiff is not entitled to a certified copy of Virginia Sunahara’s original Birth Certificate, and Plaintiff also is not entitled to “have access to that original.” (State’s Memorandum in Support of Motion to Dismiss, at pp. 2-3).
However, HRS § 338-13(a) expressly states, “the department of health shall upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate on file in the department. . .” (Emphasis added). (See HRS § 338-13, as Exhibit 2). HAWAII RULES OF EVIDENCE, Rule 202(b) requires “mandatory judicial notice of law.” “The court shall take judicial notice of (1) the common law), (2) the constitution and statutes of the United States and of every state, territory, and other jurisdiction of the United States, . . .” (Emphasis added).
Defendant State is required to produce a copy of Virginia Sunahara’s original Birth Certificate, and not merely a “computer generated abstract” HRS § 92F-11(d) also states, “Each agency shall assure reasonable access to facilities for duplicating records. . .” The Plaintiff has sufficiently stated claims for relief which precludes dismissal or summary judgment.
-JUMP-
Defendant State and the Department of Health have not complied with the requirements of HRS § 338-13(a) merely because a “computer generated abstract” was provided to the Plaintiff. (See Abstract as Exhibit 1). Defendant State claims that, “The Director (Department of Health) has the authority to select and adopt the process of providing computer generated abstracts of vital records. . .” (Memorandum in Support, at pp. 4-5). The State relies on HRS § 338-13(c), which states, “Copies may be made by photography, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health.” (Emphasis added).
However, the State misinterprets this statutory provision because it merely provides the Director with discretion to choose the “method or process” of producing copies, either by “photography, dry copy, typing or computer printout.” Contrary to the State’s “interpretation,” HRS § 338-13(c) does not grant the Director any “discretion” or authority to disregard the requirements of HRS § 338-13(a) to provide a “certified copy of any certificate.” This section only grants the Director the discretion and authority to approve the “manner or process” of making copies. If the Legislature had intended to grant the Director the sole discretion of providing only a “computer generated abstract,” the Legislature would have eliminated the requirement of providing “a certified copy of any certificate,” or alternatively, the Legislature could have expressly granted the Director with similar discretion or authority as in HRS § 338-13(a), but the Legislature has not done so.
In addition, HRS § 338-13(c) cannot be construed as granting the Department of Health the sole discretion to provide a “computer generated abstract,” in lieu of a copy of a certified original Birth Certificate. This would effectively nullify the requirement of HRS § 338-13(a) of providing a “certified copy of any certificate.” HOH Corp. v. Motor Vehicle Industry Licensing Bd, DCCA, 69 Haw. 135, 736 P.2d 1271 (1987) (The law has long been clear that agencies may not nullify statutes).
It is also a general rule of construction in the interpretation of a statute, “courts may not take, strike, or read anything out of a statute, or delete, subtract, or omit anything.” 73 Am Jur 2d STATUTES § 200. “[I]t is a cardinal rule of statutory construction that significance and effect should, if possible, . . . be accorded to every part of the act, including every section, paragraph, sentence or clause, phrase, and word, phrase, sentence and word.” (Emphasis added). 73 Am Jur 2d STATUTES § 250.
“When construing a statute, our foremost obligation is to ascertain and give effect to the intention of the legislature which is to be obtained primarily from the language contained in the statute itself. Moreover, it is well-settled that courts are bound to give effect to all parts of a statute, and that no clause, sentence or word shall be construed as superfluous, void, or insignificant if a construction can be legitimately found which will give force to and preserve all words of the statute.” (Emphasis added). State of Hawaii v. Magoon, 75 Haw. 164, 177, 858 P.2d 712 (1993); Hi Kai Inv. v. Aloha Futons, 84 Haw. 75, 929 P.2d 88 (1996) (The court, whenever possible, interprets every word, clause and sentence of a statute to give them effect). The Court must give effect to both HRS § 338-13(a) which requires the Department of Health to provide a “certified copy of any certificate,” and HRS § 338-13(c) which provides the Director only discretion as to the method of copying records.
3. The Department of Health Does Not Have Any Discretion to Provide a “Computer Generated Abstract,” In Lieu of a Certified Copy of an Original Certificate
Although HRS § 338-13(a) states the Department of Health is to, “furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof,” this does not grant the Department an option or discretion to provide a “computer generated abstract” instead of a certified copy of Virginia Sunahara’s original Birth Certificate. While the term “or” is normally used a disjunctive, with a choice among two or more things, Hawaii law, HRS § 1-18, expressly states, “Each of the terms ‘or’ and ‘and,’ has the meaning of the other or both.” (Emphasis added). Therefore, under HRS § 1-18, the term “or” as used in HRS § 338-13(a), is to be interpreted as “and.”
-JUMP-
CONCLUSION
Defendant State has filed this motion to dismiss pursuant to HRCP, Rule 12(b)(6), claiming that Plaintiff Duncan Sunahara has failed to state a claim for which relief can be granted. However, as discussed herein, Defendant State has misinterpreted the plain and unambiguous language of the statute, HRS § 338-13. The Court should find that HRS § 338-13(a) requires the Department of Health to provide Plaintiff a certified copy of the original Birth Certificate of his deceased sister, Virginia Sunahara. The Court should also find that the Department cannot meet its statutory requirement by merely providing a “computer generated abstract.” In addition, even if the “contents” of such an abstract can be “considered for all purposes, the same as the original,” is not dispositive and does not relieve the Department of its statutory duty to provide a “certified copy of any certificate.”
THE COMPLETE MEMORANDUM BELOW AND HERE: http://www.scribd.com/doc/83139841/Sunahara-v-Fuddy-Hawaii-DOH-Plaintiff-s-Memorandum-in-Opposition-to-Defendant-s-Motion-to-Dismiss-Hawaii-First-Circuit-2-28-2012
ARTICLE II ELIGIBILITY FACTS HERE: http://www.art2superpac.com/issues.html
109 comments:
Wonder how HI will weasel out of this?
well well well...item 3 mentioned in this ruling indicates to me that the Dept. could not issue a computer generated copy of the birth certificate as it is clearly spelled out that a certified copy has preference. Sooooooooo....thats a nice torpedo at the water line for the good ship Obamanation AND the Health Dept. If the Dept is required to issue certified copy for the deceased baby girl then they are mandated to do likewise for Mr Flappy ears. BOOM...BUSTED...GOT A LIFE JACKET?!
Yeah, go with that. That'll work.
The factcheck COLB had a DEBOSSMENT when Hawaii's DOH has an embossed seal.
It's an "innie" not an "outie" as it should be. Total obvious
FRAUD.
Since these certificates are numbered and consectutive...I read somewhere that maybe "O" is using her number on his certificate....You can't have two certificates with the same number!!!!!!!
Way to whack the noggins of those damned moles in the HDOH who keep popping up with one shitty excuse after another. Now they should crawl into their holes and come back with exactly what Virginia's brother asked for and is entitled to. Then we can begin swinging the wrecking ball and demolishing the House of Fraud that the SOB squatter built.
I think Anonymous at 11:10PM is right on the money. That Obama is using Virginia's certificate # and that's why her brother is being stonewalled.
I also wonder if HDOH is complicit because it's looking for Federal funds, is pro-Dem or someone is on the take.
@Anonymous: "The factcheck COLB had a DEBOSSMENT when Hawaii's DOH has an embossed seal.
It's an "innie" not an "outie" as it should be. Total obvious
FRAUD."
_________________________________
Turn it upside down. Have a graphics editing program? Open that "debossment" and rotate it 180°. Now look again. :D
Sheriff joe and jerome corsi are working for obama and they are on his side. I didn't see anything this weekend about the press conference,I saw one article monday and nothing on tuesday. They are doing this on purpose to take the publicity and excitement out of it. This is a tool communist use frequently. On thursday sheriff joe will destroy the birther movement. Jerome corsi will spit in our face for the 2nd time just like he did in may 2011 with where's the birth certificate. They both are liars and frauds.
Not really sure how this qualifies as "schooling" the HDOH. Sounds to me like this person is just trying to make a case that he wants easier access to long form certificates over short forms.
It is interesting to note that in this brief it says "Certificate of Live Birth (hereafter Birth Certificate)."
Remember when everyone was squaking about how a COLB is NOT a birth certificate? Also, does anyone remember how that particular talking point evaporated into thin air when Obama released his LFBC?
If Virginia's number on the original is the same as obama, the original BC will NEVER see the light of day if it has not been destroyed already. But wait, it should be on the microfishe roll...Ahh What microfishe roll ????We lost it...
Imagine that once again, except this time incurring no cost at all, the Obots spend money to not release a document. How much is it costing Hawaii to not release the thing, when they could simply have done it in a matter of minutes?
The opening statement of every hearing should be the playing of the Oscama "People with something to hide" video.
I hope the plaintiff can find an honest judge that will not allow the HI Dept. of Health to continue to get away with murder.
Of course, this lawyer, like so many, has printed his own downfall:
"However, HRS § 338-13(a) expressly states, “the department of health shall upon request, furnish to any applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate on file in the department. . ."
Of course, a computer generated abstract would qualify as releasing "the contents of any certificate on file."
Quick loss for this one.
They sure are wriggling over there in the HDOH. We must be getting close.
It is not inconceivable that the corrupt HI court will say that Sunahara has no "standing"-- and therefore "case dismissed". I am not endorsing this position, just stating that the corruption is so deeply rooted, that if Baby Virginia's COLB was stolen by the DoH and the Obama Machine, the house of cards would collapse... and they can't afford that.
If thed court decides that a brother should have the right to see his sisters original birth certificate, that's fine with me, but what's the connection with Nobama? Do they think that this will make it easier to try to see bama-boys birth certificate? I don't think that'll happy, but if someone can understand this better than me, I'm happy to learn.
".. Duncan Sunahara is the natural brother of Virginia Sunahara, deceased. On or
about November 22, 2011.."
Does that mean Duncan Sunahara is deceased? Bad writing, since Virginia Sunahara can't possibly be deceased on or about..What is going on, no one noticed?
Refusing to issue obozo's 'original' bc is one thing. Refuse to issue a little girl's orig bc?
It stinks to high heaven! WHY won't they release that? Because it has the exact same number as obozo's?
Hey, they can release Virginia S' bc and blame her for stealing obozo' bc number!
Can anyone believe the insanity of this situation?
Makes you think that this issue has struck a nerve if not gold.
Watch out for another fake.
We are certainly living in interesting times.
Beautifully and powerfully written. A perfectly clear, concise, entirely true and factual, precise, and a completely self-evidence argument that cannot be misconstrued or overthrown with false, illegal, and illogical hearsay and illegal procedures. Now it is up to the judge to read the law, and to easily and simply perfectly obey the law and comply with the law, and obviously rule in favor of the plaintiff. If this judge does not do this, than this judge is as clearly corrupted as Satan is, and we will know that this judge is obviously not acting as an unbiased, and an impartial, but this judge ruling against the plaintiff's will show herself to be working as a defendant for the criminals who are working in the Dept. of Health who have been purchased and bribed by Soros and the King of Saudi Arabia to commit hideous and heinous treasonous crimes to lie, protect, and to cover-up the explicitly 100% clear fact and truth that Soebarkah - Barry Soetoro was factually 100% absolutely NOT in any way, shape, or form born in Hawaii, or in any of the 50 states of the USA.
And to cover-up the 100% truth and the 100% fact that his true legal name is obviously
NOT the 100% criminally manufactured and 100% illegally created, 100% fraudulent and fake illegally created USA identity & illegal name of Barack Hussein Obama II for him to use, since he never bothered to legally naturalize into the USA as a USA citizen.
Soebarkah is a 100% hired, recruited, and trained KGB Communist domestic terrorist, a foreign and domestic enemy terrorist usurper, and an Islamist Muslim Brotherhood member by choice. He is also a hired evil serial liar, and a serial criminal Globalist financial terrorist puppet, and a foreign & domestic international serial criminal sociopath, and a lover of evil, crimes, and sins against God
puppet for the Federal Reserve/Illuminati/Free Mason/New World Order - One World Government Globablist U.N. paid and hired destroyer of the USA completely out-of-his-mind power-mad megalomaniac, serial criminal psychopath, narcissistic, effeminant, gay Indonesian fuck-boy, delusional drug addict, and a genocidal mass murderer, war-monger. Finally, Soebarkah is a servant of Satan, and a delusional false prophet who is constantly publicly lying, who is daily committing hideous and obviously extremely dangerous, outrageous, lawless criminal felonies, high crimes, frauds, and high treasons as he is truly demon possessed and therefore he is a demon controlled, and a spiritual extremely sick demonic serial criminal puppet Satan is using to try to destroy the USA and many nations, and to try to rob, steal, and to kill and to destroy many billions of souls on earth as Soebarkah is truly doing bidding of the father of lies and the father of evil, murder, crimes and sins of all kinds against God and humanity. Satan is using Soebarkah as a serial criminal sociopath, false prophet for Islam, Anti-Christ servant of Satan destroyer of America for atheist KGB Communist stealth foreign and domestic enemies of the USA who ae working with Soebarkah to destroy & overthrow the USA.
Soebarkah who is serving evil and therefore the father of evil, crimes, sins and lies against God - is Stan's serial criminal tool like the serial criminal Globalist's are Satan's tools who is hired by them to be a paid, hired, serial criminal destroyer, and an evil tool to destroy the USA; and to encourage other people to commit evil, crimes, and sins with him against God and humanity to bring as many souls to perdition/hell where Satan is going as possible. All We The People must do is simply to immediately arrest and stop Soebarkah from being able to commit his high crimes on earth, and simply arrest and stop the other people on earth who are committing high crimes and on earth.
Whether embossed or debossed, raised or sunken, the alleged official seal of the HDOH on the FactCheck COLB was not legible as such.
On the other hand, the embossed or debossed, raised or sunken, offical seal of the "State of New Hampshire - City of Manchester" on the scanned image of my laminated credit card size "Birth Registration" is quite legible as such.
No Legible Seal Means It Ain't Real.
Thank God, Orly Taitz name does not appear on this document. This may have a chance!!!
@Anonymous
According to Dean Haskin's Virginia Sunahara's COLB is also debossed.
Ms Tickly was wrong.
@Anonymous
Virginia Sunahara's certification number is not the same as President Obama's. Her's is much higher according to Dean.
@California birther/dualer/doubter"Now they should crawl into their holes and come back with exactly what Virginia's brother asked for and is entitled to. Then we can begin swinging the wrecking ball and demolishing the House of Fraud that the SOB squatter built."
California, this is what I don't understand--how does Mr. Sunahara getting to see his sisters birth certificate fit into the Nobama challenge? I'm hoping someone will take the time time to explain it to me, because I don't get it. Wouldn't it take someone like a very close relative (brother/sister/parent) to get permission to see Nobama's b.c.? All of his relatives are dead, right?
This should do nicely, coming on the heels of Sheriff Joe's Report 3/1/12!
Thank goodness we are beginning to see the wall crumble.
This was a terrific brief. If I ever need a lawyer in HI I'll be looking for GERALD H. KURASHIMA.
Question for OWYR: You titled this as “Hawaii Attorney Schools Hawaii Department of Health and Vexatious Litigant on Hawaii Law and Procedure.” Where in the brief is there a mention of “Vexatious Litigant” or is that in the state's motion to dismiss? (anyone that knows the answer can please answer)
I must be looking in all the wrong places.
Why cite HRS Section 338-13a as the authority when 338-13 b5 specifically states:
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
A.Standard Copy A certified copy of the original birth certificate on file with the Department of Health as described in paragraph 2.4(b)(1) may be issued to:(1)The registrant, his descendents, his authorized agent or upon order of a court of competent jurisdiction.
The plaintiff is not a descendant, he has a common ancestor.
@8:33, here's where you need to be looking for the vexatious litigant: http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/
BREAKING: Mario Apuzzo denied pro hac vice admission in Pennsylvania ballot challenge.
Don't bother showing up in court tomorrow, Mario. The judge refused to allow you into the case, because of your record of frivolous legal arguments and because of your idiotic 199-page single-spaced "brief that was anything but brief". That brief won't even be filed in the court file, since Mario was told to get out of Pennsylvania and go back to Joisey.
@Foggy of the Fogbow
Even Doc C. said that the seal is debossed based on this image.
http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/birth_certificate_1.jpg
@William Lolli
Since Virginia Sunahara \'s certificate number is not the same as President Obama's, what evidence is there that the BC was stolen?
Don't worry, the Obummer/Dims will use taxpayer money to buy off the corrupt Hawaii courts/judges/politicians, as they did in Georgia. Case closed.
A sad state of affairs for our country. Is there not an honest American left anywhere in power?
Where does it say in Hawaii law that the seal must be embossed?
@Foggy of the Fogbow Rotating a document doesn't make an "innie an outie" dumbass. It's kind of like being pregnant, you either ARE or you're NOT but then I wouldn't expect you to know anything about that.
And to Anonymous 8:08 AM that said Ms. Tickly was wrong. You better tell that to the HDOH because they are the ones that told her they have no seal that DE-bosses. All of their seals are EM-bossed and she has the emails to prove it.
Obot FAIL
"Since Virginia Sunahara \'s certificate number is not the same as President Obama's, what evidence is there that the BC was stolen?"
None. Because it wasn't.
@Anonymous
Since Virginia Sunahara \'s certificate number is not the same as President Obama's, what evidence is there that the BC was stolen?
The question is what PROOF is there that Virginia's BC number isn't the same as Obama's? We need to see the long-form to verify that the short form wasn't altered. The short-form is a much easier document to fake. Also, Virginia's BC number was hand written on an otherwise typewritten death certificate. This is just validation that is being sought. There is reason to not trust HDOH.
The pleading is codswallop. It all depends on what the word "certificate" means. And under Hawaii law it means a computer generated birth certificate, which is then certified. If it meant the original birth record, the statute would have said so.
Next case!.
Garrett, what reason is there not to trust the HDOH?
@Foggy of the Fogbow
BREAKING: Mario Apuzzo denied pro hac vice admission in Pennsylvania ballot challenge.
Assuming this is true, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't prove anything. I guess since the facts don't treat you so kindly you deal in mockery and being shallow?
Good on ya mate.
@Anonymous
The pleading is codswallop. It all depends on what the word "certificate" means. And under Hawaii law it means a computer generated birth certificate, which is then certified. If it meant the original birth record, the statute would have said so.
Ah, that may be true but the real question is what did the word 'certificate' mean in Hawaii before 2008? Beuller, anyone? ....
@AR925
@Foggy of the Fogbow Rotating a document doesn't make an "innie an outie" dumbass. It's kind of like being pregnant, you either ARE or you're NOT but then I wouldn't expect you to know anything about that.
You mean if you rotate a pregnant woman she will STILL be pregnant!? Damn, back to the drawing board...lol. ;)
@Anonymous
Garrett, what reason is there not to trust the HDOH?
http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/hdoh-funny-business-regarding-virginia-sunahara/
http://butterdezillion.wordpress.com/2011/05/19/hdoh-has-two-different-versions-of-1960-64-birth-index/
http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/09/16/aloha-corruption/
That is just a start. There is MUCH more. Like the fact that many HI agencies required the long-form as requisite ID before 2008...when the laws suddenly changed. MANY books could be written on their deceptive tactics.
Hint: Vexatious Litigant = Cartoon image at the top of this post.
@Garrett Haha! Exactly! She's still an "outie"! ;)
@Garrett: "I guess since the facts don't treat you so kindly you deal in mockery and being shallow?"
The facts -- and the law -- have treated me most kindly for more than three years. President Obama was born in Hawaii, therefore he's a natural born citizen. One fact, one law. End. Of. Story.
But, umm ... yeah. I like mockery. Mockery is fun!
The device that makes the raised seal embosses on one side of the paper and debosses on the other. If some clerk put the paper into the device upside down, you think you can use that to remove the 44th President of the United States? Don't make me laugh. This is the weakest birther argument ever made.
@Foggy of the Fogbow
One law, zero proof. An internet image of a BC is NOT a certified copy...EVEN IF the HDOH links to it from their site. If there is nothing to question, simply PROVE it.
One law, two citizen parents. PERIOD.
But you are right about mockery being fun. Just like President Hamdi would be a barrel of laughs. Parent's citizenship doesn't matter indeed.
This isn't "schooling." It's a losing argument. The statute unambiguously authorizes HDOH to determine in which format birth certificates will be issued. Duncan does not have a cognizable right to a particular format of COLB.
@Foggy of the Fogbow
You say he was born in HI? Put your money where your mouth is. Go put up a plaque at Kapiolani commemorating the birthplace of our first African-American president. It seems like something that should be remembered. I'm sure you won't receive any push back from the hospital. After all, they are surely PROUD that his mother chose to deliver there. PROUD of the service they rendered to her, to our first African-American president...indeed to this nation.
Good luck with that. ;)
Dear ORYR:
Thank you so much for letting a few of my comments through moderation. I know my honestly held beliefs are different from most here, but they are honestly held. And my beliefs have an advantage, in that they are supported by the laws of this great nation. Some birthers can never figure out why they constantly lose. I know they don't accept that the law is not on their side.
I will continue to keep any profanity out of my posts, though your other members use profanity against me. I will continue to bring you breaking news from the boogle at Fogbow (Dean Haskins christened us "the Fogbow boogle". It's a collective noun, like "a pride of lions" or "a gaggle of geese," except this one is "a boogle of weasels". We proudly adopted his insult, to show how much we care what others think.
And I'll always be honest with you. For example, I admit I have no idea what Sheriff Joe is going to say tomorrow. But I can tell you that there are only two options available: Either Sheriff Joe says the president is definitely, positively ineligible, or he says something less than that, like "needs more investigation" or maybe even "he's eligible".
In the first instance, if he says the president is ineligible, the MSM will have no choice but to make the birther movement front page headlines for a day or two again. I kind of hope that happens. That benefits both of our websites, driving more traffic, but the sheriff will become a national laughingstock. In the second instance, the birthers should be outraged, not just at Sheriff Joe, but at Jerome Corsi and WorldNetDaily for raising money these past 8 months for the Cold Case Posse. I got an email this morning from WND, asking for money for Sheriff Joe. If any of you have donated to the Cold Case Posse and 8 months later Joe says "needs more investigation," what were they doing all this time? Twiddling their thumbs and watching paint dry?
"One law, zero proof. An internet image of a BC is NOT a certified copy...EVEN IF the HDOH links to it from their site. If there is nothing to question, simply PROVE it.
One law, two citizen parents. PERIOD."
One law, and not zero proof. He was born. There's some proof. Hawaii says he was born there. Some more proof. Original birth certificate. More proof. Newspaper announcements. More proof.
What you can't show, though, is much proof that before now, the United States ever limited NBC status to those of two citizen parents. (Minor doesn't count, because, of course, it didn't decide that.) Point to a single decision where someone was declared NOT a NBC on the grounds that they only had one citizen parent...
Guys, can we agree on a definition of success and failure?
Every day that President Obama serves in office is a success for the Obots and a fail for the birthers. So far, that means one thousand one hundred and thirty six successes in a row for me, and an equal number of fails for you.
Maybe you'll win someday. The day President Obama is removed from office for ineligibility, that will be a birther success and I'll be the first to admit it.
But don't think assassination is a birther win. If you remember John F. Kennedy, he was a mediocre president who suddenly achieved near-sainthood when he was killed. If someone assassinates Obama, the same will happen.
Let me know the day he's removed from office for ineligibility. Let me know the day you get him removed from even one state's election ballots. But until then, please don't bother telling me about how you're winning. You've been winning for more than three years. It's getting boring, how much you've been winning. Except guess who's sleeping in the White House this very night?
If the paper went in upside down, when, embossed, would the type be backward when viewed right side up?
Long before the 14th Amendment, in the year 1856, the very first Republican nominee for president, was John C. Frémont, famously known as "the Pathfinder" for his explorations of the Southwest.
His father was a Frenchman who stole away with an American's wife. His father never became a citizen of the United States. He was born with dual citizenship, American and French.
His opponent in the Republican primaries was a Supreme Court justice. But even long before the 14th Amendment, Supreme Court justices knew that if you are born in the U.S., you're a natural born citizen. He didn't claim that Frémont was ineligible.
Did you know that NOBODY in the U.S. complained that President Obama's dual citizenship at birth made him ineligible? It was only after the election, in desperation at the thought of a black president, that Leo Donofrio invented that "two citizen parents" rule.
" Foggy at fogbow " have you looked at youself in the mirror lately? YOU LOOK LIKE S_IT.
The stress of your lies are killing you.
You say he was born in HI? Put your money where your mouth is. Go put up a plaque at Kapiolani commemorating the birthplace of our first African-American president. It seems like something that should be remembered. I'm sure you won't receive any push back from the hospital. After all, they are surely PROUD that his mother chose to deliver there. PROUD of the service they rendered to her, to our first African-American president...indeed to this nation.
Good luck with that. ;)
---
It is the state of Hawaii, under the previous Republican administration and the current Democratic administration in Hawaii who confirm Barack Obama's birth there.
Kapi'olani Medical Center did publish a letter from the President naming Kapi'olani as "the place of my birth" in their Centennial Anniversary publication.
Their confirmations are corroborated by:
1)Birth notices for him in the August 13 and August 14, 1961 editions of both major Honolulu newspapers.
2)Reference to his birthplace and birth date in the 1964 Dunham-Obama divorce decree.
3)His elementary school application for St. Francis Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia lists Honolulu as his birthplace.
Did you know that NOBODY in the U.S. complained that President Obama's dual citizenship at birth made him ineligible? It was only after the election....lies, Berg filed his lawsuit in august of 2008.
BREAKING: Mario Apuzzo denied pro hac vice admission in Pennsylvania ballot challenge.
Assuming this is true, and I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, it doesn't prove anything.....could be a good thing, then they can call him as an expert witness
To Fogtard:
Show the term "natural born citizen" in the 14th amendment.
Which was added in 1868.
The Civil Rights Act of 1866 was enacted twice, once in 1866 and again in 1870 emphatically emphasize it.
So forshitforbrains, the CRA1866 says anyone born subject to a foreign power, is not even a US Citizen, let alone the higher standard of a natural born citizen.
You fucking liar fogfuck, go away dumbot and tend your goats.
fogbrain, that's pretty lame to say nobody said nothing about Fremont...you cannot prove they didn't.
it boils down to the fact that an A1 US Citizen is different from an A2 NBC because IT SAYS SO IN THE FRICKING CONSTITUTION. The former is an umbrella category for NBCs and statutory Citizens.
The CONSTITUTION (14th) says no statutory citizen is a NBC!
Since jus soli only is at best statutory (it's abused, it was meant only for former slaves), it CANNOT be NBC.
Duh.
@Foggy of the Fogbow
You Obots always have lots of "ifs" but never seek proof. It does validate the fact that you believe something is wrong. You just don't want to find out because your guy will go down.
Fog, we'll come for you eventually, will even give you an extra dose of anti-louse powder and a soap on a rope for prison.
fogbow is nothing but a mafia criminal and deserves to be cornholed in prison
he knows obama is ineligible and just comes here to goad
one US citizen parent born anywhere, that's just a statutory US Citizen
the constitution shows that no statutory citizen is ever a NBC (not in the 14th)
therefore 1 US citizen parent is never a NBC
When I started a little Sub-S Corporation I had to get a seal, and it was ordered online, and it was a debossing stamp. You could select various graphics.
Mine is medical in nature and I, years ago, selected a lot of similar graphics to what was used in the DOH. You can put your company name or whatever in it.
Problem is, when the dumbots ordered their stamper online, they couldn't get exactly what was needed to match DOH's, in design or size and worst of all, theirs is a debossment when Hawaii law calls for an embossment.
These dumbots are so cheap!!!
Trust me, 340 million pissed off Americans will crush the fogbows, they'll have to pay him a visit.
Anyone who doesn't address Obama's article II ineligibility is just another dumbot
mickey, butterd, WND, Orly
Foggy the Florist is just an flaming "out" dumbot.
@anniemouse
Wonder how HI will weasel out of this?
By being corrupt liars. They can't follow their own laws including their courts. Just like those FogBlow clowns do.
No Foggy, we cannot agree on success and failure. Everyday day that Soetoro is in office it a failure for our country. Everyday day that goes by with having a guy running the country who has never presented any legal evidence to show that he is qualified to be POTUS is also a failure of our country. The fact that he spends big bucks to avoid providing proper docs is very telling. There are only two possible scenarios here:
One is that he is eligible, but chooses to spend lots of money and waste time to avoid providing proper evidence. This is not rational.
Two is the most likely situation; which is that he is not eligible.
In either case, it is bad for the USA. We have either a upurper or an irrational nutcase runnng the country. Neither one is a good situation.
Also, it was the Liberal Dem Phil Berg and the Hillary Clinton people that started to make people aware of the problems with Soetoro and his ineligility.
@Garrett
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6REMN0WvaDY
@Anon. 11:56: "Foggy at fogbow " have you looked at youself in the mirror lately? YOU LOOK LIKE S_IT."
I'm sure that must be a great consolation to you. President Obama will never be removed from office for ineligibility, but you got to cuss and call me ugly. That's almost as good as seeing the president in handcuffs, yesno?
Feel better, poor bunny.
Sheriff Joe's investigation story is on Drudge.
"Foggy at Fogbow" We on the right ran a way too soft of a candidate in 2008, McCain did not go after Obama aka Bounel on his fraud, his use of multiple SSNs, his inability to pass E-Verify, his associations with domestic terrorists, his violations of the Logan Act with his cousin Odinga in his home country of Kenya, his lack of having a US Birth Certificate? This time around foggy boy we will not be silent, we will not give up and everyone will know.
So that means BOTH the factcheck COLB with the innie stamp AND the whitehouse.gov with the Adobe layers are FRAUD!
2 for 2
total mafia criminals
What is so difficult for some to understand?
The words NATURAL and BORN together? Natural Born Citizen. (Requirement to be POTUS)
The definition means someone who is born
to TWO (2) citizens of the country.
The BC (fake or not)
indicates
1)that the child was born in US, thus the child is a US CITIZEN.
2)that only ONE of the TWO parents were citizens.
Therefore child is NOT considered NATURAL BORN.
@Foggy of the Fogbow
If any of you have donated to the Cold Case Posse and 8 months later Joe says "needs more investigation," what were they doing all this time? Twiddling their thumbs and watching paint dry?
So the line of attack is to erode the support of the movements leaders? Please, nobody is going to turn on Corsi. He has done everything he can and there is NOTHING wrong with soliciting donations for the only law enforcement investigation into these issues.
@Anonymous
One law, and not zero proof. He was born. There's some proof. Hawaii says he was born there. Some more proof. Original birth certificate. More proof. Newspaper announcements. More proof.
He was born...we can agree on that...lol. Two or three people who work for the state of HI have claimed that he was born there...we can agree on that. The original BC has never been shown to anyone. Not only that, the certified copy has not been shown to anyone, save Guthrie. Rather, an image of what is purported to be a certified document has been shown. We can agree on that...lol. The newspaper announcements are identical, having the same source, and were triggered by Obama's birth registration in HI...regardless of whether or not it actually occurred there. What is wrong with proof for the man controlling our military? Stop obfuscating.
What you can't show, though, is much proof that before now, the United States ever limited NBC status to those of two citizen parents. (Minor doesn't count, because, of course, it didn't decide that.) Point to a single decision where someone was declared NOT a NBC on the grounds that they only had one citizen parent...
More obfuscation. Point to a single SCOTUS case that has found someone to be NBC and POTUS eligible who was born to a non-citizen, non-immigrant father. And Minor DID define NBC...but I can understand why you'd want to obfuscate that fact. Again, SCOTUS clarity is all that is requested. Yet, we are painted as the unreasonable ones. Good stuff.
@Foggy of the Fogbow
Guys, can we agree on a definition of success and failure?
I'd suggest you shift your paradigm from worrying about success and failure and worry instead about truth and honor...if you care about those things.
@Foggy of the Fogbow
His opponent in the Republican primaries was a Supreme Court justice. But even long before the 14th Amendment, Supreme Court justices knew that if you are born in the U.S., you're a natural born citizen. He didn't claim that Frémont was ineligible.
Well, the Republicans did it years ago...it MUST be legal. Try a substantive argument based on law.
Did you know that NOBODY in the U.S. complained that President Obama's dual citizenship at birth made him ineligible? It was only after the election, in desperation at the thought of a black president, that Leo Donofrio invented that "two citizen parents" rule.
Utter nonsense. I was well-versed on the two parent debate easily months before Obama was elected to office. Your statement is patently false.
@Foggy of the Fogbow
Since you contend it was always well known that jus soli determines 'natural born' status, perhaps you can explain the following comment from Chester Arthur, made WHILE HE WAS PRESIDENT. Keep in mind, Arthur was a dual citizen at birth..born to a father who had not yet naturalized.
"An uniform rule of naturalization” such as the Constitution contemplates should, among other things, clearly define the status of persons born within the United States subject to a foreign power (section 1992) and of minor children of fathers who have declared their intention to become citizens but have failed to perfect their naturalization…A just and uniform law in this respect would strengthen the hands of the Government in protecting its citizens abroad and would pave the way for the conclusion of treaties of naturalization with foreign countries.” President Chester Arthur, Fourth Annual Message, Dec. 1, 1894."
Now, Arthur just admitted that he would require naturalization since he was born subject to a foreign power. And we know that naturalized citizens are NOT natural born.
Things that make you go hmmm.....
@Anonymous
"Why cite HRS Section 338-13a as the authority when 338-13 b5 specifically states:
(5) A person having a common ancestor with the registrant;
A.Standard Copy A certified copy of the original birth certificate on file with the Department of Health as described in paragraph 2.4(b)(1) may be issued to:(1)The registrant, his descendents, his authorized agent or upon order of a court of competent jurisdiction.
The plaintiff is not a descendant, he has a common ancestor."
I think you meant H.R.S. 338-18b(5)! And that is a good question!
The writing is on the wall!
I doubt Foggy and ORYR are too stressed as they laugh at us being led in circles by dirty Obamabot bloggers, plaintiffs and lawyers.
Sheriff Joe makes DRUDGE REPORT HEADLINES!
Foggy, YOU will have Montezuma' s Revenge all day tomorrow.
A GOOD LESSON FOR YOUR VICIOUS INSIPID MALADAPTIVE PROCESSING ABILITIES.
NO RELIEF FOR A TRAITOR EXCEPT A LIFE OF HARD LABOR.
i predict sheriff joe will let obama off the hook, and in return obama will let sheriff joe off the hook
quid pro quo (Aki Shuro Jake Harper)
"His father was a Frenchman who stole away with an American's wife. His father never became a citizen of the United States. He was born with dual citizenship, American and French."
Fremont was born a bastard, citizenship came from the mother. He was NBC.
Fail obot
Virginia Sunahara is the perfect persons BC number to steal. Only limited copies were ever made or needed. Mom probably had one copy and that's it. Never used to apply for SSN or passport or to go to school. They could not risk stealing a 10 year old kids number because it would have already been used various times.
the whole problem is that he came out of the wrong hole and they could not issue a birth certificate. that's that, lets move on.
Fogblow's obviously scared shitless today as he just keeps on posting, showing how terrified he is of what Sheriff Joe's report will hold. lol A sight to behold! What truly cracks me up is his logic that if you put a piece of paper in a seal upside down, the seal "magically" becomes DE-bossed instead of EM-bossed. Hahaha! That's the best one I've heard in a loooong time and really gave me a good laugh. But then that's how the mind of an Obot works....no logic just more BS. Thanks for the entertainment Fogblow. I loved it.
Foggy wants to be the next intern at the white house, Lewinsky style. Sorry foggy, he already has EXCELLENT ROD and RAM A MAN U WELL and eric HOLD HIM on the job. He doesnt need to catch your crabs or smell your filthy soiled crack.
"The Court finds the testimony of the witnesses, as well as the exhibits tendered, to
be of little, if any, probative value, and thus wholly insufficient to support Plaintiffs' allegations"
That about sums it up. Tomorrow many of these birthers will be calling Arpaio an obot and a traitor.
http://thedailypen.blogspot.com/2012/02/vital-records-indicate-obama-not-born_29.html
VITAL RECORDS INDICATE OBAMA NOT BORN IN HAWAII HOSPITAL
@Anonymous
"When I started a little Sub-S Corporation I had to get a seal, and it was ordered online, and it was a debossing stamp. You could select various graphics.
Mine is medical in nature and I, years ago, selected a lot of similar graphics to what was used in the DOH. You can put your company name or whatever in it.
Problem is, when the dumbots ordered their stamper online, they couldn't get exactly what was needed to match DOH's, in design or size and worst of all, theirs is a debossment when Hawaii law calls for an embossment."
Exactly.
@Ed K
"the whole problem is that he came out of the wrong hole and they could not issue a birth certificate. that's that, lets move on."
^this
I was taught in1968 that to be a NBC required 2 citizen parents and that to be POTUS you must be a NBC. In 1968 bari was maybe 7 yo, don't think my Naturalized teacher was lying,I do believe that bari and friends are!
The 2 citizen parents was known way before the election, Congress has tried to change the meaning several times. WHY? WHY did Hillary and bari take Mec Cain to task, but bari has never been scrutinized. Why was the inaugeration so messed up? To the point they did it agin only in private and with no Bible? The inaugeration was not constitutional and no fuss ever surfaced. Why did he meet with Scotus the night before? Totally wrong totally un ethical. I could go on and on.
As far as what I will think of sherriff Joe, certainly may change tomarow if he has been dropping hints that his findings were explosive
and tomarrow says bari is absolutely legit I guess I will decide how I feel then. It is still America and we have a right to change our minds.
Knowledge bomb!!!
Here are some hard sources related to the natural born citizen debate. Bookmark them and use them as you see fit:
American Law Review (1884) - http://www.scribd.com/doc/19071886/Are-Persons-Born-Within-the-United-States-Ipso-Facto-Citizens-Thereof-George-D-Collins
New York Tribune (1896) - http://naturalborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/tribune.jpg
Boston Globe (1896) - http://naturalborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/boston-globe-1896-full1.jpg
Albany Law Journal (1905) - http://naturalborncitizen.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/naturalborncitizen-alexander-porter-morse-1904.doc
New Englander and Yale Law Review - http://books.google.com/books?id=gGNJAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA414&dq=Vattel+%2B%22natural+born+citizen%22&as_brr=4&cd=5#v=onepage&q=Vattel%20%20%22natural%20born%20citizen%22&f=false
Ben Franklin. Letters to Delegates of Congress (1775) [Vattel referenced during founding of new nations] - http://etext.lib.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=DelVol02.xml&images=images%2Fmodeng&data=%2Ftexts%2Fenglish%2Fmodeng%2Fparsed&tag=public&part=459&division=div1
This Was New York (1789) [Washington consulted "Law of Nations" first day in office] - http://www.kerchner.com/images/protectourliberty/pres-george-washington-consulted-law-of-nations-book-1st-day-in-office.jpg
Library of Congress [Jefferson's personal library, book list on law of nations] - http://www.kerchner.com/protectourliberty/jeffersoncopylawofnationsinlibraryofcongress.pdf
@Anonymous
It is the state of Hawaii, under the previous Republican administration and the current Democratic administration in Hawaii who confirm Barack Obama's birth there.
Kapi'olani Medical Center did publish a letter from the President naming Kapi'olani as "the place of my birth" in their Centennial Anniversary publication.
Their confirmations are corroborated by:
1)Birth notices for him in the August 13 and August 14, 1961 editions of both major Honolulu newspapers.
2)Reference to his birthplace and birth date in the 1964 Dunham-Obama divorce decree.
3)His elementary school application for St. Francis Assisi school in Jakarta, Indonesia lists Honolulu as his birthplace.
Kapiolani quickly pulled the article with the claim to being Obama's birthplace after WND reported the story. When asked for official confirmation, Kapiolani refused. Now why would the PROUD hospital who birthed the 1st African-American POTUS do that? Again I challenge you...go there NOW, and try to get them to officially claim his birth there. The previous admins only confirmed Obama was born in Hawaii...they didn't name the hospital. Again, foreign births were registered as happening in HI at the time.
1)Both birth notices were identical and were generated from registration of live birth..whether it happened in a hospital, at home or in a different state or country.
2)A divorce decree does not seek to establish the info provided by the parties. They could have said he was born on the moon.
3) Again, no corroboration. They could have said he was born at the Lincoln Memorial. Relevance?
If we can void Obama then Kagan the rubber stamp and The unWise Latina would be illegitimate, and removed from the SCOTUS. This is most important.
-Did you know that NOBODY in the U.S. complained that President Obama's dual citizenship at birth made him ineligible? It was only after the election....lies, Berg filed his lawsuit in august of 2008.
As did Orly, Whenever they throw the "RACE CARD" they're pulling shit out of their ass.
"I was taught in1968 that to be a NBC required 2 citizen parents and that to be POTUS you must be a NBC. In 1968 bari was maybe 7 yo, don't think my Naturalized teacher was lying,I do believe that bari and friends are!"
It's amazing how good a job Obama has done destroying all these textbooks that used to reveal this fact. You would think one would have surfaced by now.
@Ed K
"If we can void Obama then Kagan the rubber stamp and The unWise Latina would be illegitimate, and removed from the SCOTUS. This is most important."
Bzzzzzzzzzz. Down the shute you go. Na na, na na na na, hey hey, good bye.
The Senate confirmed both nominations.
You so-called "constitutionalists" are pretty friggin stoopid when it comes to ... the Constitution.
@anniemouseI was taught in1968 that to be a NBC required 2 citizen parents and that to be POTUS you must be a NBC.
I was taught the same thing, only in 1958!
Breitbart's Footage Shows Obama 'Palling Around' With Terrorists: Infowars Nightly News
A great deal of lots of USA American protected free speech info & Wayne Madsen's investigative info update.
Especially Listen To This Starting At Minute 17:45:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WnCQyQn9zgc#at=1089
MUST SEE ALEX JONES' WELL RESEARCHED TRUE & FACTUAL INFORMATION!!!
Alex Jones In Dallas Texas Live 2012-02-19 Sunday FULL - Alex Jones: Blueprint to Defeat the New World Order
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Venb9aReAP4&feature=player_embedded
* * * *
Total Election Fraud Against Ron Paul Documented!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuP8FoigDoQ&feature=player_embedded
OBAMA MIGHT CANCEL 2012 Elections! Dr. Jerome Corsi, Alex Jones - Pt 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vEba8jLVADE&feature=related
* * * *
OBAMA MIGHT CANCEL 2012 Elections!! Dr. Jerome Corsi, Alex Jones - Pt 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dbzR39dNgPQ&feature=related
* * * *
Alex Jones - Dr. Jerome Corsi: Obama "Barry Soetoro" The Illegitimate President - 3/3!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=KCQmh_S0L_s#!
* * * *
Obama Doesn't Know His Own Birth Date!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wF_n-gn-Yo&feature=player_embedded
Two Comments:
"cfkerchner March 3, 2012 at 5:57 pm
Bush issued orders via the Homeland Security Department after Obama won the election to squash and cover up any attempt to dig into and discuss openly the fraud that Obama is. They did this on the basis that they believed that cities would burn after Obama won the popular vote and if he subsequently was disqualified. And of course the Dept of Homeland Security has been continuing to squelch any attempt to get to the truth with extra relish since Obama took over the reins of government and in particular, the DOJ with Eric Holder in charge there.
Our own government has been the enemy of the truth, with Glenn Beck thinking he’s a secret agent operative working to help them and protect cities from burning, ever since McCain and the RNC made the deal with Obama and the DNC to not talk about McCain’s natural born Citizenship flaws if he would not bring up Obama’s [100% Undocumented Illegal Alien Status, 100% Undocumented Illegal Immigrant Status, & Soebarkah - Barry Soetoro's Alias "Obama's" Current 100% Foreign Legal Indonesian Citizen Status] during the campaign. Meanwhile, while they are protecting us from the truth, the Constitution and every institution of our government and the rule of law is being corrupted to protect the fraud Obama, the Emperor who now clearly is wearing no clothing."
* * * *
"cfkerchner March 3, 2012 at 5:58 pm
I would not wish to be the forger/forgers. AZ Sheriff Joe Arpaio and his Cold Case Posse are now in the hunt for the person who did the document forgeries. Find him or her and the house of cards Obama built will collapse. Whoever that person is, they would be best at this point to surrender to Sheriff Arpaio immediately seeking entry into a witness protection program so as to not end up like Obama’s Chicago church’s Choir Director — murdered. The person or persons involved in the document forgeries better hop a quick flight to AZ and turn themselves in to Sheriff Joe before Obama’s goon squad gets to them when push starts to get to shove in this investigation."
http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/investigators-now-in-hunt-for-forger/
Perhaps you may wish to not be quite so bold in your article captions.
Not quite "schooled." Sunahara case today, judge converted hearing to a summary judgment hearing. Defendant was granted summary judgment. Case over.
So Mr. Sunhara lost his case. I still don't understand what this has to do with Nobama or why Dean Haskins was involved. I tried to get answer to this twice on this forum but no one would reply. Guess you have to be an obnoxious Obot for anyuone to pay attention to you. Oh well, I guess it doesn't matter anymore.
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